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Post by DarkAries on May 28, 2004 19:06:25 GMT -5
It's a survival instinct, that might makes right thing, Mav. What do you expect? We're only two steps out of bashing rocks together in caves or tossing spears on the savannah. We are an evolutionary pinhead.
Give humanity a little time. Aries is sure that our own development will outdistance that instinct for favor of higher emotions.
You know, the more turbulence Aries sees in our species today, the more Aries is convinced that we're just a transitional species.
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Corey
Gamma
~Pink Nazi Pirate Ninja~
Posts: 362
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Post by Corey on May 28, 2004 19:13:33 GMT -5
Exactly Aries. It's just like the racial issues from a century or so ago. Eventually people will learn to accept each other. But there will always be some new controversial thing that people are gonna hate, and bash, and so forth about other people.
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Post by Meyo-san on May 29, 2004 13:26:36 GMT -5
Well, if you believe that everyone right now is getting along, think again. The KKK is still around, is it not? I mean, I might have been a little gorggy when I heard this radio report, but there is a religious fanatic who created his own website called "http://www.godhatesfags.com", with the internet, it's just stepping things up.
No, the human race will not stop oppressing those weaker than they are. It's been that way since the begining, the Roman Empire, the feudal lords of the Middle Ages, Nazi Germany, and the list goes on.
You might think that I'm pessimistic, wrong, I'm a realist. There is still racial intolerance in many Americans today, such as Affirmitave Action, and in schools there were people being racist, and they just didn't know it.
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Corey
Gamma
~Pink Nazi Pirate Ninja~
Posts: 362
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Post by Corey on May 29, 2004 13:45:58 GMT -5
I know we're not getting along. Just that it's better than when there was slavery etc. And I'm not saying someday eventually everyone will accept homosexuals, there still be tons of people who will hate them. Didn't mean to have such an optimistic air about me.
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Post by Wag - Now And Forever on May 29, 2004 15:05:47 GMT -5
Funny thing is, both homosexuals and members of the KKK, Neo-Nazi's and other hate-oriented groups make up a very, very small percentage of the population. Homosexuality is not "banging down your door", as much as people would like to think it is.
The scenario which is occuring right now is gay activists not necessarily having numbers, but just being incredibly loud and constantly listened to by Washington and the media in general. Consider that homosexuality has only really been in the public eye as somthing besides an utter taboo since, at the earliest, the mid 1970's. While there has been statistics run time and time again to accurately grasp the percentage of homosexuals in the US, consider just for a moment how many black / african-american people you know, or at least how many you see on a day-to-day basis compared to the number of other races. According to US census numbers, Blacks make up 12.3% of US population.
Now consider how many gay people you know compared to the number of non-gay people. Compare that to the african-american percentage and you may begin to get some idea of how many gay people exist in the US. Granted, if you live in certian areas (I live in the south for example) there might be dramatically higher percentages of blacks, but regardless, this is based on the US Census taken in 2000. Since the US census does not cover sexual affilation / preference, many statisticians have estimated homosexuals making up anywhere from 3-8% of the population. Now if there are that many gays, consider how many people in the US are affiliated with a hate group. Beginning to see the picture?
As for this statement, the funny part is that none of these people thought they were oppressing anyone. In every instance, a supernatural religious force was the driving ideology behind these powers. With Rome, the Emperor himself was revered as a god. The Fudal Lords in the middle ages were all bound by the Catholic church as seen in the crusades, and Nazi Germany was founded on the principles of the Thule cult, a masonic-based society compiled of numerous religious teachings and ideals of a super-race of Norse / Atlantean men.
"The Mandate of Heaven", is the most often cited reason for many of the "atrocious" actions carried out that people call "hate crimes". The KKK knights themselves were founded on warped Chrisitan philosophy. While there may be isolated incidences of violence that are simply abitrary, consider the higher motive, and why many of the members of these groups are so zealous. Religion permeates society and humanity down to it's deepest levels. People will live and die by their religion, and thusly, when it is threatened, they will react to it.
In the Bible, Homosexuality is described as "an abomination before God". Soddom and Gammorah are cited in the Bible as places where not just one person, but literally the entire city was one, massive homosexual commune. And anyone who has read these parts of the Bible would know that the punishment for this was God "rained down fire and sulfer" on the city and more or less leveled it.
Ahem...my point is, 76.5% of all Americans are Christian, 24.5% of all Americans specifically being Catholic, making Christianity and Catholicisim the most prevalent religions in the US. Christianity is not a hate-based organization or group, it is a religion founded on the teachings of God in the Bible, and the sacrifice of Jesus. Without getting into a theological debate (please, PLEASE don't), understand that Homosexuality is generally, as a whole, not accepted either actively or passively by Christians. This may be expressed in an agressive or non-agressive manner. This is not "OMG HOMOFAG DIE BECAUSE YOU ARE HOMO", this is infringing on beleifs that have been around for thousands and thousands of years.
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Corey
Gamma
~Pink Nazi Pirate Ninja~
Posts: 362
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Post by Corey on May 29, 2004 15:54:30 GMT -5
I understand that Wag. The thing is, Christianity is also a religion that is supposed to promote peace, love, compassion etc, and the aggressive stance many people take against homosexuality is kinda making them out to be hypocrites. That's my main problem anyways. I don't have a problem with someone not agreeing with it, but when they contradict their own beliefs to support their beliefs it doesn't make them seem very credible.
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Post by Mega Raptor on May 29, 2004 19:46:36 GMT -5
I just think it's funny that the part of the bible that says homosexuality is bad also condones stoning people to death, slavery and burning people at the stake.
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Post by Wag - Now And Forever on May 30, 2004 4:27:43 GMT -5
I just think it's funny that the part of the bible that says homosexuality is bad also condones stoning people to death, slavery and burning people at the stake. Old Testament law, which is not followed by virtually all major contemporary Christian denominations (Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian). The books (Exodus, Numbers, Dueteronomy) in which this is mentioned also contain the often misused "eye for an eye" verse. First, I can't vouch for every Christian on the planet. Regardless of religion, no one is perfect. Islam says to pray five times a day, but I'm sure there are followers out there who don't. Does that mean they're all hypocrites? But more to the point, Christianity isn't so much to promote love an peace as it is to follow God's will. God's will just happens to be loving the sinner, and abhoring the sin. In other words, hating someone because they are gay is wrong, but hating the fact that they are gay is not.
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Post by Juan on May 30, 2004 14:59:26 GMT -5
Alot of that stuff is in the old testament, in which in the new testament, Christ basically changed alot of.
I have no problem with homosexuals. I believe civil unions should give homo sexual unions more rights sure, but its not marriage. Marriage is mainly a religious institution. It has a legal side sure, and that side should be mirrored in civil unions. The religious side, nope. They can have a celebration/ ceremony if they wont, but it won't fundamentally be marriage.
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Velesia
Gamma
Butterflies make Pretty pies
Posts: 405
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Post by Velesia on Jun 1, 2004 11:08:48 GMT -5
Thankyou thankyou Thankyou, I'm so glad that someone else has learned that! To answer your point though Zorak, one of the things that coninues between the two testaments is homosexuality itself, which is adressed in Exodus, Corinthians(wait, was that part of Numbers?), and... damn... I'll have to check my bible. But anyways... Religion is indeed very specific. If I'm not mistaken homosexuality is agains Muslim law as well isn't it? I'm Catholic... baptized and practicing, and I haven't had my first communion yet, (which means I'm not technically part of the church and don't neccessarily have to follow it's mandates, but the impression is given me that I should as from my Father and parents) sheiza... I have to go, I'll fin this thought later
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Post by Craze on Jun 1, 2004 12:02:48 GMT -5
Old Testament law, which is not followed by virtually all major contemporary Christian denominations (Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian). The books (Exodus, Numbers, Dueteronomy) in which this is mentioned also contain the often misused "eye for an eye" verse. I find some Christians are very leaniant (sp?)(if I screwed up this word, I mean not strict) on the Old Testament. Exodus, NUmbers, and Deuteronomy were, in fact, the laws put down for the Israilites. We've had many recent popes that have brought the Church out of the old and got them into the Modern World. I just hope we can get past this small problem, for homosexuality has started to become part of this Modern World. But I don't want to go any further and not turn this thread into about Christianity than the main purpose of this thread.
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ThoughtShift
Epsilon
Song of the week: Butchered At Birth by Cannibal Corpse
Posts: 83
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Post by ThoughtShift on Jun 1, 2004 14:13:19 GMT -5
Just like the guy with the German name said, marriage is a religious institution. Homosexuals trying to use that term is, in my opinion, wrong. Trying to force a religion and it's followers to change their beliefs just for you isn't right. I don't agree with how they're treated, but I don't think they should be able to use marriage. Civil union would do fine if they still got all the same rights as married couples. Marriage began as a Christian term and mostly still is. Christians, for the most part, look down on homosexuals. They aren't going to change their beliefs. I believe that a fair concession would be to ask for civil unions with all the same benefits as marriage.
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Post by Mega Raptor on Jun 1, 2004 22:33:08 GMT -5
I have a simple way to end this mess over the names.
If they just did this, there would be no problem.
Leave 'marriage' as a religous term ONLY, no connection to the government. If you want a religion to recognize your couple, you get a marriage.
If you want the Government to recognize your couple, you get a Civil Union, that would have all the legal benefits and such.
This way, the legal definition and the religious definition have seperate terms, and no religion is 'forced' to recognize a homosexual marriage if they don't want to.
Obviously, a religious straight couple would get both documents, while a homosexual would only get the legal since we can't force a religion to recognize it if they don't want to.
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Post by Craze on Jun 1, 2004 22:38:19 GMT -5
I have a simple way to end this mess over the names. If they just did this, there would be no problem. Leave 'marriage' as a religous term ONLY, no connection to the government. If you want a religion to recognize your couple, you get a marriage. If you want the Government to recognize your couple, you get a Civil Union, that would have all the legal benefits and such. This way, the legal definition and the religious definition have seperate terms, and no religion is 'forced' to recognize a homosexual marriage if they don't want to. Obviously, a religious straight couple would get both documents, while a homosexual would only get the legal since we can't force a religion to recognize it if they don't want to. Hmmm...that would work.
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ThoughtShift
Epsilon
Song of the week: Butchered At Birth by Cannibal Corpse
Posts: 83
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Post by ThoughtShift on Jun 2, 2004 2:03:49 GMT -5
That's a very good idea Mega Raptor. I wish more people thought like you do.
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