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Post by Lita Maxwell on Oct 3, 2005 22:00:36 GMT -5
Things have been alright here, though hectic. I'm very busy in my Junior year in highschool and life feels like I'm seeing it through someone else's eyes ^^;;
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Post by Craze on Oct 3, 2005 22:18:23 GMT -5
EDIT: I'd like to extend more pleasantries, Lita, but I'm currently locked in a battle to the death with Crazy I'm going to invert your argument, as you seem to have your conclusion before your thesis, if you don't mind. In arguements like this, there is no conclusion. It wasn't even meant to be a conclusion, it's just me talking what I think. Religion requires faith, believing without always seeing, it doesn't destroy religion because faith in beliefs is part of everyday life. Something might destroy belief in a certain aspect for one person, it doesn't always destroy everyone's. All I said is where God comes in is a relative opinion. If faith plays a part in an individual's life, it shows in their arguement. If faith doesn't, it shows in their arguement. You only twisted my words into pointing in the direction of questioning God and his existence. I'm not questioning his existence, I'm just saying that whatever God (being, whatever your version of God is, whether one of Muslim, Hindu, or any other religion) plays in the situation of good and evil, all depends on the opinions of the person. If you you believe in a religion, then you point to aspects of this debate to spiritual points. If you don't believe in a God, then you don't think of the arguement as spiritual and move it into a different direction. All I say is, religion plays a part in what you believe about good v.s. evil, not that the religion itself is questionable because that is only opinion. Again, all you did was the same for the first paragraph, twist it to where you can question God's existence, not the subject once discussed. For some people, they feel God is necessary. For some people, like yourself, they feel God is not. It all matters upon beliefs. And God just doesn't apply to Catholic God, it can apply to material objects or events or ideas we worship. It can apply to many things. Whether we feel God plays a part is all a matter of beliefs. In conclusion, you went on a different tangent. All I say is arguements change according to beliefs, that is why some questions are never truly answered because they are so many possiblities. I feel that religion doesn't have to come in to argue about existence (or the lack of existence) of good without evil.
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Post by Ai on Oct 3, 2005 23:10:07 GMT -5
You guys are fags.
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Post by NeoEllis on Oct 3, 2005 23:23:20 GMT -5
Not true Crazy, not true. If you'll take a look at my original set of questions:
You'll see that this is a simple, indeed, classic proof arguing against God's existence through shear logical contradiction. It was your tangent, I simply followed your lead because I found the argument interesting. However, you should keep in mind that even though the argument was implicitly focused on morality and it's relationship to humanity with or without God, the debate was from the beginning on God's existence.
The concepts of "good" and "evil", even the difference between "bad" and "evil" are completely subjective to individuals, different cultures, historical periods and so on, as has already been discussed above. However, belief in God requires irrational belief and faith, usually stemming from a person, A) being indoctrinated to a given religion from a very early age, and thus seeing their given religion as simple empirical truth, and not bothering to question it, B) a person being disenfranchised enough and in a weak enough psychological state to accept whatever dogma appears most pleasant, C) simply choosing to believe a given morality because the person is most comfortable with that world view, D) a simple fear of exploring a world without ultimate retributions and rewords and a fear of non-existence -death, or (usually) E) a combination of the above.
Regardless, religion is motivated by illogical and irrational faith. Arguing for religion on behalf of faith itself is circular reasoning.
QFE.
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Post by Draco Starcloud on Oct 4, 2005 4:03:41 GMT -5
I resent any implication that I am a bundle of sticks.
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Post by Androidraptor on Oct 4, 2005 9:22:53 GMT -5
My laptop's internet is finally fixed! So I can get on the net' at school (I'm in Physical Science right now) and do stuff! W00T!
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Post by NeoEllis on Oct 4, 2005 12:39:00 GMT -5
You go to Wikipedia and spend your days reading all about psychology and history and 19th century philosophy and whatnot so that one day you can be an internet-philosophy-warrior just like me and Crazy and Gunn.
Yeah.
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Post by Cygnus X-1 on Oct 4, 2005 14:05:57 GMT -5
Things have been alright here, though hectic. I'm very busy in my Junior year in highschool and life feels like I'm seeing it through someone else's eyes ^^;; 'Sup motherfucker?
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Post by Lita Maxwell on Oct 4, 2005 17:31:47 GMT -5
'Sup Heifer?
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Post by Nowhere Man on Oct 4, 2005 17:37:47 GMT -5
*NM sees Lita, runs, and hugs.* Where've you been!? How's life been? How's Gunn? *NM then proceeds to cry again, because Lita got offline without replying to him.*
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Post by Draco Starcloud on Oct 4, 2005 18:15:07 GMT -5
*hums the Rocko's Modern Life theme song*
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Post by Lita Maxwell on Oct 4, 2005 18:15:34 GMT -5
*pats NM*
I'm fine, between working and school I just havent had the desire to poke around here. Gunn's fine as well.
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Post by Cyrus on Oct 4, 2005 18:21:33 GMT -5
*hums the Rocko's Modern Life theme song* God I miss that show. Anyone knows if it still comes on.
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Post by Craze on Oct 4, 2005 18:37:39 GMT -5
(Yep, I agree I screwed up a bit. I remembered right when I started falling asleep what the original arguement was, and that I put in a conclusion.) Craze think illogically. Damn you, Craze! If God is all powerful and all loving, how can there be evil in the world? If there is evil in the world and God is all powerful, how can he be all loving? If God is all loving and he allows evil to exist, how can he be all powerful? Okay, I was brainstorming in Religion class (because like most classes, I just copy notes and drift into unconsciousness) and started thinking. You know how they are many possibilities as to who we could've been, genetic and otherwise. What if who are we now was the best choice? Sure, some of the more evil men today could've been kinder, but even sometimes there's a possibility that even those with good intentions can cause evil. What if we are making the choices, we are running our lives by choice (or free will) but God knows how our lives end and by doing so chooses the best one? What if we were worse off in our "other possibilites"? That doesn't just apply to handicaps, but to altered, dangerous personalities, influences, pain, suffering (though pain and suffering are always there, no matter what life you live.) Evil comes from us, from (for a lack of a better word) "urges" within us. Now, by going with that "God is all loving", then would you call it out of love that out of all the other people we could've been that we were given a well-off or the best life? (I'm not stating this as fact either, it was just something I started thinking.) And you say God is not all powerful because he is loving and allows evil in the world. Allows. That could mean he could possibly stop it, if he felt like it. (Though you can't eradicate all evil because there needs to be balance.) Hell, I should thank you, Ellis. Many of times from back at the old bars, from thinking about my faith over your arguements, I've become stronger in my faith as time passed. Congradulations! ^__^
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Post by Nowhere Man on Oct 4, 2005 18:49:30 GMT -5
*pats NM* I'm fine, between working and school I just havent had the desire to poke around here. Gunn's fine as well. Good, good! Very good to hear! I'm glad that things have been going well. I think I speak fo everyone (or, at least, I'd like to think I speak for everyone) when I say that we missed you guys, and that we're glad to have you back... however long or short your return might be.
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