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Post by The Giant-Size Man Thing on Jul 8, 2005 15:51:24 GMT -5
Watch this map.After you do, turn off the USA checkbox. Just something to look at.
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Post by Juan on Jul 8, 2005 17:31:35 GMT -5
A little perspective: Compare this to the occuption of Germany post World War Two. Alot more fatailities then. Now compare our reaction to being attacked during World War Two to now. Back then, if we were sniped in an area we leveled the entire city block.
Fact of the matter is, there are going to be fatalities unless we take extreme measures towards restricting them. We could line the borders with land mines, but thats inhumane. We could take a more severe thing like we took in Germany like I mentioned, but modern ethics/ media coverage prevents. Without taking extreme measures, there will be casualities. *shrug*
And we cannot pull out yet. Why? The new Iraqi government needs American resources for it. Period.
Though its becoming quite like a broken record with me, keep in mind that for every one of those casualties, how many of the Insurgents/ terrorists/ whatevers have we captured or killed? The ammount is ALARMINGLY good. Sure, these are people not statistics, but in a realistic point of view, they aren't bad statistics at all.
Compare this to WWII, Civil War, Revolutionary War, any war of such a calibur. Its NOTHING in comparison.
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Post by Cygnus X-1 on Jul 8, 2005 18:21:24 GMT -5
Back then, if we were sniped in an area we leveled the entire city block. And you consider that a step up to what we do now? As opposed to CARPET BOMBING and entire city with NO military target with immense civil casualties. And you believe that it's not worth taking such measures? If they even exist. That plus the fact that we had no exist strategy to begin with. What? Are you sating that car bombs and suicide bombs end with less terrorists than they do civilian casualties? And all three of those wars were HELL. And frankly, I think it's disgraceful to compare this war to WWII. Then we were dealing with the Holocaust and the invasion of ever free country in Europe. Hussein was literally minding his own business. |
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Post by Juan on Jul 8, 2005 18:26:19 GMT -5
Just minding his business... and a few hundred mass graves....
And Cyg, all I'm saying is that the OCCUPATION stage here is BOUND TO BE ROUGH CASUALTIES WISE.
While we are getting Car Bombed, guess what? At the same time we capture and kill TONS of people. I think the rate is at over a hundred people a day are CAPTURED, I forget how many of the enemy are killed. Don't be so dumb Cygnus, do you think that what the news states is "This is all that happened today in Iraq. Period." The media <3s bad news, and thus they like to play up the bad things and play down the good.
Attempt amungst all these casualties of Americans to see how many insurgent casualities/ captures there are on the side. It may surprise you.
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Post by The Giant-Size Man Thing on Jul 8, 2005 18:27:49 GMT -5
Zorak, you do sound like a broken record. For once shut up and look at what is really going on. This isn't about statistics, who had more people killed, whatever. This is about the simple fact that people are being killed. I presented a map that shows where, how intense, and by date.
You can't compare this war to World War II, the Civil War, the Revolutionary War, etc. It's not a full-scale war. What's going on in Iraq is a police action. And on average, there are two soldiers dying every day. That's just the soldiers. Think about all of the violence that is going on over there . And, yes, there is violence going on over there. Say what you will about the media, they're just reporting what's happening. It's probably more in the way of thirty people dying a day over there. We've been there for 29 monthes. You do the math.
And for what? Honestly? What have we accomplished? A democracy? Please, once we leave, that thing is gonna crumble and we'll have another Hussein, or worse, religious tyrant on our hands. And wasn't the basis for the war to find the Weapons of Mass Destruction? 29 monthes later, maybe a few canisters of something, but most of it was destroyed or dead in the desert long before we got there.
The people we've captured? We've been keeping them in Camp X-ray for the past two and a half years without trial. We don't even know if half the people in there are guilty because we haven't tried them yet.
Too bad I have to agree with you about staying, though. Just think what would happen if we did leave. We've made our bed, looks like we'll be sleeping in it for a long while.
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Post by Cygnus X-1 on Jul 8, 2005 19:00:54 GMT -5
You're so hot about comparisons, look at all of those African war-lords or Saudi Arabia. Or even China. If we were out there for democracy, we would have been all over Saudi Arabia and China since the fall of the Soviet Union. But you know what? China has "Most Favored" status for ECONOMIC reasons. This country means capitalism, not democracy or human rights. If we stood for anything like that, we'd stop the tobacco loby in our own government and strive to be more like Denmark or Luxembourg.
That were created when Bush I supported Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war....
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