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Post by Tobari Sabbatine on Dec 5, 2004 1:18:24 GMT -5
well it is true that if the libray we would have been 1000 year ahead.
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Post by Triyun on Dec 5, 2004 12:25:40 GMT -5
I'm not convinced that if we had the library still we would have railroads in 900 c.e.
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Post by Infested Manae on Dec 5, 2004 17:57:57 GMT -5
Ponder this carefully, Triyun.
One of these most monumentous events in the past 1000 years was the invention of the printing press. Suddenly, hand-scribing was pointless. Books could be rapidly reproduced. Anything any person discovered or thought up could be quickly printed and spread around the known world. Many inventions we take for granted weren't just invented by one person. Hell no! They were the culmination of discoveries used and retooled for new purposes. I've said it before. Go watch "Connections." Damn good show/reads. Trust me.
Now, look to the Library. Here was a store of most of the knowledge of the known world. Knowledge couldn't move around easily in those times. Many great thinkers flocked to the Library for the honor of working there. Yes, the Library was also a lab. The clock you use very day? Much of the early design and function happened inside the Library. Even though much of the scrolls still existed in the world after the Library burned, you'd have to spend hours on the minutes of actual work for travel.
Trust me. It set us back when it burned. Especially considering that all the work done at the Library didn't have a secondary location, and that work was the most advanced of the time.
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Post by Tobari Sabbatine on Dec 5, 2004 21:17:22 GMT -5
Yeah since it had EVERYthing in the know world. Plus had a massive lab. We had to relearn a lot.
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Post by Triyun on Dec 5, 2004 21:44:55 GMT -5
Your missing the point, I'm not disputing the library set us back in terms of our knowledge of culture. However, most of the technological achievements of Rome, the most advanced civilization were preserved in Constantinople, which was by far the greatest city of the ancient world. In terms of engineering its loss was not as huge a set back as your making it out to be. And an entire millenuim is a gross exaggeration. At the earliest it was burned at the defeat of Cleopatra. The world did not sink into a dark age then. Your arguements if your talking in terms of our scientific ability just don't add up.
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Post by Tobari Sabbatine on Dec 5, 2004 21:58:39 GMT -5
Your missing the point, I'm not disputing the library set us back in terms of our knowledge of culture. However, most of the technological achievements of Rome, the most advanced civilization were preserved in Constantinople, which was by far the greatest city of the ancient world. In terms of engineering its loss was not as huge a set back as your making it out to be. And an entire millenuim is a gross exaggeration. At the earliest it was burned at the defeat of Cleopatra. The world did not sink into a dark age then. Your arguements if your talking in terms of our scientific ability just don't add up. Umm this was befor Constantinople like 20 CE. Rome wasn't an Empire then, Alexsandia's Libary was were people wend to learn
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Post by Infested Manae on Dec 5, 2004 22:29:43 GMT -5
Your missing the point, I'm not disputing the library set us back in terms of our knowledge of culture. However, most of the technological achievements of Rome, the most advanced civilization were preserved in Constantinople, which was by far the greatest city of the ancient world. In terms of engineering its loss was not as huge a set back as your making it out to be. And an entire millenuim is a gross exaggeration. At the earliest it was burned at the defeat of Cleopatra. The world did not sink into a dark age then. Your arguements if your talking in terms of our scientific ability just don't add up. I'm harping on it because you're harping on it. We didn't slip into the dark age until Rome fell. It started when the west went down. It really took hold when the Byzantine Empire fell. But in all seriousness, there was knowledge stored in that library that hasn't been perfected even yet. Take Rome's mile markers. They were perfectly spaced apart. I believe it was Aristotle that made the device, I could be wrong, but they have pictures of a cart that would drop a marble every mile it was pushed. The general principle was understood, but it wasn't until within the past ten years that a rather unknown historian had the realization that the gears in the cart used triangular teeth instead of rectangular as the picture dipicted. Simple, yes, but what else might have been lost? I'm telling you, if not for the dark ages and knowledges lost recently before and during, we'd be in a very different world right now.
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Post by Tobari Sabbatine on Dec 5, 2004 22:36:31 GMT -5
you can't belive the stuff that it masted have.
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Post by Triyun on Dec 6, 2004 12:00:30 GMT -5
The fall of Constantinople actually took Western Civilization out of the dark ages. Part of the reason the renaissance happened was the documents that were taken with people when they fled the Turks capture of the city were introduced to the West. As for that machine, I seriously doubt it existed.
As a rather reputable archeologist told me, you have to view the ancient world with skeptiscm. A lot of this is myths.
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Post by Tobari Sabbatine on Dec 6, 2004 13:31:39 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Italy started the renaissances.
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Post by Triyun on Dec 6, 2004 18:11:35 GMT -5
*Bangs head against table repeatedly*
Ok look, when the Turks overran Constantinople many people fled like I said. They went TO ITALY. Look at a map of Turkish conquests its obvious thats one of the places they'd probably go. When these documents were introduced to people in Italy that helped start the renaissance.
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Post by Infested Manae on Dec 6, 2004 20:35:08 GMT -5
The fall of Constantinople actually took Western Civilization out of the dark ages. Part of the reason the renaissance happened was the documents that were taken with people when they fled the Turks capture of the city were introduced to the West. As for that machine, I seriously doubt it existed. As a rather reputable archeologist told me, you have to view the ancient world with skeptiscm. A lot of this is myths. Hmm? Crap, I'm messing up my history But yes, the machine did exist. It's actually absurdly simple, it just took the difference of triangular and rectangular gears to make it work. I'd look up some evidence for you, but I'm playing WoW. View history with skeptism, but don't try say something didn't exist just because it suits your needs. Not to make that as an attack on you, though.
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Post by Triyun on Dec 6, 2004 21:34:37 GMT -5
I don't doubt it was designed, constructed is another matter, I'd like to see records from multiple sources though because the difficult in craftsmanship from the way you describe it.
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Post by Infested Manae on Dec 6, 2004 21:39:09 GMT -5
The wheel was a specific radius. Every turn, it turned a single gear one click. On top of the box was another large wheel with a bunch of holes around the edge to hold small stones (marbles). At equally spaced intervals of distance, a pebble dropped into a catch.
It wasn't that complex. Hell, it was equilly or less complex than their clocks at the time. The only problem we had with recreating it was square sprockets jammed in it.
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Post by Tobari Sabbatine on Dec 6, 2004 22:28:22 GMT -5
I don't doubt it was designed, constructed is another matter, I'd like to see records from multiple sources though because the difficult in craftsmanship from the way you describe it. like we said most were in the libary.
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