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Post by Juan on Mar 28, 2005 10:05:32 GMT -5
Actully X, my mother is a nurse, a Cancer Nurse in fact, so she has delt with tons of cases like this actually, and it actually is pretty peaceful from what I hear. In a state like that it is in fact some what euphoric with the lack of food. Gradually fading away.
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Post by The Giant-Size Man Thing on Mar 28, 2005 10:20:28 GMT -5
I never said that was a CAT Scan, but it was some kind. I'll look it up. Besides, the EEG is not reading any brain wave activity. SHe's dead.
And like Zorak said, dying from starvation and dehydration may sound horrible, but it's not really that bad. They hospice she is in is giving her morphine, in fact. Besides, it's how Alzheimer's Patients die every day. Hell, it's what finally did Reagan in. If we kept him on the tube, I bet Reagan would still be "alive," but not truely alive.
I'll find out what the brain scan is, though.
Hmm, it was a CAT Scan, but it was done back in 1996. Of course, unless she grew a new brain in ten years, I think it's safe to say she's not there.
And of course he's already seeing another woman and had children with her. His wife has been dead for 15 years. Unlike her parents, however, he has come to understand she is gone.
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Post by Raz V5.0 on Mar 28, 2005 12:08:15 GMT -5
Don't you mean conservatives, since it's the Christian Right who is knocking our beliefs back into the Middle Ages? No, I meant Liberals. Either way, I don't fucking care about this story. Its purpose is to distract us, it is doing exactly that.
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Post by Xtermo on Mar 28, 2005 16:10:51 GMT -5
Oh, wait, Goj- you're right. I forgot the rule.
"He who is no longer of viable use is dead, and must therefore be disposed of."
I forgot that we were in Nazi Germany for a second there. My bad.
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Post by Meyo-san on Mar 28, 2005 19:24:02 GMT -5
So, this is all the human race has come to? The strong live, and the weak die? Then we aren't that much evolved than apes.
The judge is ignoring new evidence, and the supposed "loving" husband had brought his girlfriends in to show them that his wife is in a vegetative state, oh, and her parents have no say in the fate of their child.
So, what? You're advocating the bread and circus system of the Roman Empire where there is a group of people such as yourselves that do nothing but get fat off the system, and enjoy bloody entertainment?
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Post by The Giant-Size Man Thing on Mar 28, 2005 22:59:49 GMT -5
Wait, wait, wait, I'm saying let the poor woman finally die as to the spouse's wishes, and I'm getting equated to Nazis and the Roman Empire? Look, the woman is DEAD, D-E-A-D, but the parents just can't accept that, Congress can't accept it, the president can't accept it, and appearantly neither can some of you.
And Mav, I have no idea what the fuck you're blabbering about. Would you mind elaborating?
But honestly, comparing me to Nazis? What the fuck? The Nazis advocated killing the weaker and sick of other ethnicities and using the rest as slave labor while simultaneously trying to perfect their own "master race." I'm saying let a brain-dead woman die. That's a huge-ass leap, don't you think?
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Post by Xtermo on Mar 29, 2005 0:06:02 GMT -5
All I'm saying is that she's not dead yet. When you can put their cold, stiff corpse underground- then their dead. Until then she's merely inferior and weak. And the Nazis didn't limit their killing to ethnic groups. The mentally retarded, homosexuals, and any considered a "threat" to the complete strength of the human race were under the gun too (no pun intended).
It's just that under the Nazis, she'd have been equally fucked. She would have been labled as of no use to the government and eliminated. (Granted, they probably would have at least had the balls to gas or shoot her or something.)
And once again, I just think that the conflict of interests is too great in a life-or-death matter on the part of her spouse in this case. But that's just my opinion. Perhaps you disagree.
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Post by DarkAries on Mar 29, 2005 0:20:51 GMT -5
Is anybody amusingly reminded of that skit from the beginning of Monty Python and the Holy Grail?
"Bring out your dead!" "Here's one." "Ninepence." "I'm not dead!" "What?" "Nothing! Here's your ninepence!" "I'm not dead!" "'Ere...he says he's not dead." "Yes he is." "I'm not!" "He isn't?!" "Well, he soon will be, he's very ill..." "I'm getting better!" "No, you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment..." "I can't take him like that! It's against regulations!"
And so on and so forth.
Anyway, Aries is saying that this is a good thing, both for the family and the husband, so on and so forth. How would you feel, looking into the eyes of the person you loved, despite the fact that their soul was dead, gone, and had slim-to-none chances of coming back? How would you feel if you had to care for what was left of that person? For the rest of your or their natural life.
Aries wouldn't be able to fucking take it. Terri Schaivo died decades ago, kiddies, it's time for that family to understand it, realize it, grieve, and get the fuck over it.
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Post by Juan on Mar 29, 2005 0:50:37 GMT -5
Parents offered to take full responsibility/ custody over her, Aries.
And obviously he was able to move on. He has as I said two six year old kids.
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Post by Xtermo on Mar 29, 2005 1:20:53 GMT -5
Terri Schaivo died decades ago, kiddies, it's time for that family to understand it, realize it, grieve, and get the fuck over it. The personality is gone, but the life endures. On another note, it does sound humourously similar, doesn't it?
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Post by The Giant-Size Man Thing on Mar 29, 2005 7:50:53 GMT -5
But the life endures artificially, through a feeding tube. Now with its removal, the body is almost dead. The brain is dead. She is no longer human because she is neither sentient nor sapient, the two things that makes us human. She's just an empty shell, and her family finally needs to accept that.
And in marriage, you basically make a legal compact with someone and when something happens to your spouse, she's/he's your responsibility, and you have the final word because you are next of kin. The whole conflict of interest of Michael Schiavo, to me, appears to have been largely created by the parents to undermine Schiavo's authority. Just because he moved on five years after she died does not necessarily mean he was not a loving husband.
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Post by Juan on Mar 29, 2005 10:02:49 GMT -5
... he was dating within a year, and he was already having marriage problems with her (read: divorce was ahead) when "the incident occured".
And I'm inclined to call that CAT scan bullshit. Why? It was never included in any of the court cases, and neither side has mentioned it.
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Post by Meyo-san on Mar 29, 2005 11:07:29 GMT -5
... he was dating within a year, and he was already having marriage problems with her (read: divorce was ahead) when "the incident occured". Yeah, I heard the same thing. It's also funny how the Democrats aren't trying to advertise this as another reason why Stem Cell research would be a miracle cure. But, this country is getting screwed up because the judge in the case is refusing to hear new evidence, nor go any deeper than what he's been told. That's funny, because I thought a judge was supposed to be able to do that, and if this judge isn't, doesn't that mean there is a serious problem with judges believing that they are the law, and no one could stop them. On the parent's, it's simple, they don't want their child to die before them, it's just too terrible for a parent to outlive their child, unless if you really don't care about them, then you'd be lousy parent. In fact I've talked to people who are parents, and they said that they wouldn't pull the plug on their child. Also, what was it that pro-choice activists said? The baby was a part of their body? Well, then, Terri Schiavo was a part of her mother's body, so who should have the greater authority, her husband, or the woman who gave her life?
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Post by The Giant-Size Man Thing on Mar 29, 2005 11:44:14 GMT -5
... he was dating within a year, and he was already having marriage problems with her (read: divorce was ahead) when "the incident occured". And I'm inclined to call that CAT scan bullshit. Why? It was never included in any of the court cases, and neither side has mentioned it. I'm pretty sure that it has been mentioned in court cases, as well as the fact as the EKG or whatever is not picking up any brainwaves, and countless doctors have said she is in a persistent vegitative state. Now, I have no idea what was going on with the husband in this case. But I'm inclined to go with my original statement about the husband having the authority. To argue with Mav here, once a person reaches a certain legal age (I'm guessing either 18 or 21), they can choose to no longer be under the authority of the parent, and of course when someone is married, they enter into a bond in which the spouse is their spokesperson in cases such as this. Oh, and the Stem Cell thing as a miracle cure, wouldn't work. While we can replace heart tissue or spinal cord injury with cell therapy, the brain can't be replaced. Besides, even if it were possible, she wouldn't be the person she used to be because all of her memories and such are lost forever.
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Post by Meyo-san on Mar 29, 2005 15:17:57 GMT -5
I'd figure that many of the people here who want her to die, want the parents to be as miserable as they are, hell, they want everyone to be as miserable as they are. Anyway, I doubt her husband loves her, I mean, they were on the verge of divorce, and removing the feeding tube would mean that he gets to keep everything, without the risk of her recovering. I don't see anything countering the judge statement. Full Monty Python quote The Dead Collector: Bring out yer dead.
Large Man with Dead Body: Here's one.
The Dead Collector: That'll be ninepence.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead.
The Dead Collector: What?
Large Man with Dead Body: Nothing. There's your ninepence.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead.
The Dead Collector: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.
Large Man with Dead Body: Yes he is.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not.
The Dead Collector: He isn't.
Large Man with Dead Body: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm getting better.
Large Man with Dead Body: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.
The Dead Collector: Well, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I don't want to go on the cart.
Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, don't be such a baby.
The Dead Collector: I can't take him.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I feel fine.
Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, do me a favor.
The Dead Collector: I can't.
Large Man with Dead Body: Well, can you hang around for a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
The Dead Collector: I promised I'd be at the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today.
Large Man with Dead Body: Well, when's your next round?
The Dead Collector: Thursday.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I think I'll go for a walk.
Large Man with Dead Body: You're not fooling anyone, you know. Isn't there anything you could do?
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I feel happy. I feel happy.
[the Dead Collector glances up and down the street furtively, then silences the Body with his a whack of his club]
Large Man with Dead Body: Ah, thank you very much.
The Dead Collector: Not at all. See you on Thursday.
Large Man with Dead Body: Right.
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