|
Post by The Giant-Size Man Thing on Feb 9, 2005 10:14:29 GMT -5
Manae, I have read Genesis. I had to read it, take notes on it, and take at least three tests on it this year in religion class. The book is steaming load, and so is practically the entire Bible.
And it doesn't answer my question. Why would God give us the capacity to do this to ourselves? We all know that the Judeo-Christian God has a special place for evil-doers, but what gives him the right to send us there if he created us that way? Genetic background, in some cases, shows that some violent behaviors are, in fact, genetic. That is, if you believe in a god, that's how he created you. So, is it your fault that you have faulty wiring that causes you to do wrong things, or is it God's fault?
And if you say that even though we are created imperfect, the fact that we have to strive for a better world and praise and love the Lord, I will hurt you. Because why praise a deity who made the world so fucked up as it is? And why would an all powerful being need the praise and love of lowly mortals? Does He have some kind of inferiority complex or something? Now, striving for a better world is what we should all try to do, but we do not need the God variable to do so. Instead of believing in a higher power, believe in yourselves and humanity. They exist and they need help.
MR, you're saying that if you lived in eternal bliss, it would be boring and you wouldn't want to live there? Well, the thing is, you only think that way because of being exposed to this world and creating such an idea that this is the end-all, be all. If you did live in the bliss, such ideas probably wouldn't pop in your head, so who gives? Just because you think all of the suffering and the death and the sorrow and the hatred, as well as the love, the kindness, the joy, is what makes life worth living, what about the all of the people who don't feel any of the love and all of the pain? All I'm saying is that a perfect world would be far better than this hellhole we call Earth.
And another thought you brought us was the "Gaia Hypothesis." I can understand it. Basically, we are a part of the universe, and, I guess this is how I see it, to make ourselves better, we have to make the universe a better place to live. But I don't see how it's really any different from not having a faith at all.
Now, Draco, could you tell me whether or not your interpreptation of God is the Deist one where God created the universe and the laws that govern it, and then left it at that, or does your interpreptation also believe that He still looks after us? Just out of curiousity.
But, in all, I think the concept of a higher being is a silly one, created in man's imagination to explain the world around him. Then later on, politicians, men of power, philosophers, etc., twisted these little mythes, slapped some morals and laws to them and other such nonsense to control the people, and BAM!, you have a religion. This is, of course, just how I see it. I'm asking you all of these questions to lead you to understand how I understand it.
|
|
Kensai
Delta
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Posts: 207
|
Post by Kensai on Feb 9, 2005 17:57:54 GMT -5
Do parents want the love of their children because of some inferiority complex? I belive God does exist. This world was created perfect. And we do still have a choice to do right or wrong. Just because someone knows what's going to happen, doesn't mean that person doesn't try to change it.
|
|
|
Post by The Giant-Size Man Thing on Feb 9, 2005 18:07:52 GMT -5
Do parents want the love of their children because of some inferiority complex? I belive God does exist. This world was created perfect. And we do still have a choice to do right or wrong. Just because someone knows what's going to happen, doesn't mean that person doesn't try to change it. Yeah, but your god doesn't just want us to love him, he wants us to praise him and put him before everything else. My parents want me to love them, but they don't want me to worship them and praise them 24/7. The world was not created perfect, unless you have some insane and twisted view of perfect. Then again, I guess everyone's view of perfect is different. There is no perfect definition for perfect. Ah well.
|
|
|
Post by dragonclaw15 on Feb 9, 2005 18:11:10 GMT -5
Ah, another person who called me Draco. DC here. Anyhow, I haven't read Genesis (as I am atheist, though I probably should, shouldn't I?), and as for Carl's question - the commonly accepted version of the state of the universe from the Judeo-Christian view is that "God" created us and is constantly watching over us and guiding our existence, so that's the point of view I used in writing what I did.
Of course, for different beliefs, the ideas are different, and in the case that one believes that god just did the creating and none of the watching, then obviously my question about why he didn't go and smite the warmongers and murderers is moot.
|
|
|
Post by The Giant-Size Man Thing on Feb 9, 2005 18:19:09 GMT -5
Heh, well, I can answer the warmongerers ad murderers thing if we go on the Judeo-Christian God thing. He condoned and even perputrated those kinds of activities himself. Of course, as long as if it was in His name. It's in Genesis, as well as several other books in the Bible, so go read it.
|
|
|
Post by dragonclaw15 on Feb 9, 2005 18:53:20 GMT -5
Okay, that would explain the crusades, and even the war in Iraq (though that's another debate), as Bush is apparently a "crusader", but not the murderers and every soldier who has ever killed.
|
|
|
Post by The Giant-Size Man Thing on Feb 9, 2005 18:55:54 GMT -5
What, Israelites committing the Ban (slaughtering everything that moves, including women and children and destroying everything that they owned) doesn't go under murder?
And like I said, only if it's done in his name.
|
|
|
Post by Spade on Feb 9, 2005 19:08:49 GMT -5
Yeah, but your god doesn't just want us to love him, he wants us to praise him and put him before everything else. My parents want me to love them, but they don't want me to worship them and praise them 24/7. The world was not created perfect, unless you have some insane and twisted view of perfect. Then again, I guess everyone's view of perfect is different. There is no perfect definition for perfect. Ah well. That is completely contorting something and almost hypocritical of yourself. You don't believe in him, so how do you know he wants us to worship him? However, I guess it is all on your interpertation though. I tend to believe that God is above the whole, this is evil, this is good. Routine. I like to think he doesn't want our worship or praise, he just wants us to at least acknowledge his existence and show him love if he wish to. If there is a God, he had to give us free will for a reason. Whatever that reason may be, we will never know. For me, and I'll even speak for Raz on this, but we were both raised Catholic. Raz hasn't given up on religion because he still goes to church every Sunday and actually, to my knowledge, still actively participates in a lot of our church functions. So I believe in God, I assume Raz does, because if he doesn't he truly is insane.
|
|
|
Post by The Giant-Size Man Thing on Feb 9, 2005 19:11:56 GMT -5
Maybe I didn't make my point clear. I mean if the Judeo-Christian God existed, and the Bible was true, it would point to the fact that God needs attention and worship or he gets all pissy.
|
|
|
Post by Tobari Sabbatine on Feb 9, 2005 22:00:26 GMT -5
Maybe I didn't make my point clear. I mean if the Judeo-Christian God existed, and the Bible was true, it would point to the fact that God needs attention and worship or he gets all pissy. Well the fist thing is that if God/Yaweh/Alla are real then many of the other gods are real as well. As it says in Exodus "You shall have no other god befor me..." in sum that means that the Jews belive that they are more than one god, thus so does the Christens and Muliums have moe than one god. in Fact Jesus is one. here's some though. What's with Judius' last name Iscariot during the time they didn't HAVE last names, plus the 'ot' is a female's ending. so it could mean that he was really a she. Also in one of the gospels it cleary saids that Jesus have 4 brothers and at least 2 sisters. (some I can remember off the top of my head) James Judith Mary If you looks at the relationship beteen Jesus and Mary Magalen(sp) it's more of a younger sister who idolist her older brother. I mean back then you can kiss a man on the lips and not be seen as gay (Gospel of Thomas, I belive)
|
|
Kensai
Delta
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Posts: 207
|
Post by Kensai on Feb 10, 2005 0:18:43 GMT -5
Well the fist thing is that if God/Yaweh/Alla are real then many of the other gods are real as well. As it says in Exodus "You shall have no other god befor me..." in sum that means that the Jews belive that they are more than one god, thus so does the Christens and Muliums have moe than one god. in Fact Jesus is one. here's some though. What's with Judius' last name Iscariot during the time they didn't HAVE last names, plus the 'ot' is a female's ending. so it could mean that he was really a she. Also in one of the gospels it cleary saids that Jesus have 4 brothers and at least 2 sisters. (some I can remember off the top of my head) James Judith Mary If you looks at the relationship beteen Jesus and Mary Magalen(sp) it's more of a younger sister who idolist her older brother. I mean back then you can kiss a man on the lips and not be seen as gay (Gospel of Thomas, I belive) My suggestion is to stop reading the DaVinci code, since the bible is fairly straight foward on that. Jesus had no siblings, and wasn't married. Mary Magdalene was just a follower no more. Judas Iscariot: He was the only non-Galilean in the group. The term Iscariot is thought to indicate his place of origin, Kerioth in Southern Judea.
|
|
|
Post by The Giant-Size Man Thing on Feb 10, 2005 9:07:42 GMT -5
Actually, the DaVinci Code is based off of an historian's book, I forget what it's called, about the subject of Jesus having a wife and siblings. The DaVinci Code itself, however, is a work of fiction.
And the problem is, Viper, the Bible isn't clear about the subject. There is one reference to his brothers and his mother coming to see him.
Then again, the Bible is so riddled with inaccuracies, vague discriptions, contradictions, and all around nonsense, it's hard to tell.
|
|
|
Post by Mega Raptor on Feb 10, 2005 16:48:07 GMT -5
You honestly can't expect ANY book to go through 2000 years of translation, editing, re-translation, modification by authorities, etc. and still be completely accurate.
|
|
|
Post by Raz V5.0 on Feb 10, 2005 17:44:32 GMT -5
Actually, the DaVinci Code is based off of an historian's book, I forget what it's called, about the subject of Jesus having a wife and siblings. The DaVinci Code itself, however, is a work of fiction. And the problem is, Viper, the Bible isn't clear about the subject. There is one reference to his brothers and his mother coming to see him. Then again, the Bible is so riddled with inaccuracies, vague discriptions, contradictions, and all around nonsense, it's hard to tell. The bible also describes Jesus as black, but he somehow turned out white. Oh well.
|
|
|
Post by Xtermo on Feb 10, 2005 19:19:06 GMT -5
You honestly can't expect ANY book to go through 2000 years of translation, editing, re-translation, modification by authorities, etc. and still be completely accurate. What you're overlooking here is the manner in which they were first transcribed. (Jews generally still do it this way, in fact) Each letter is written in a prescribed manner, allowing for no change in the physical appearance of the text. Any mistakes, and the whole page is completely thrown out and started over. And the scribe reads it aloud to himself as he goes letter by letter, to prevent changes in spelling. All in all, the oldest texts we have are very similar to the most modern, with the most notable change being whether or not footnotes are added. However, translation is another story. There's just no way to put Hebrew phrasology into English and do it justice. And Greek is far more of an accurate language than English at its most articulate. It seems to me that a good number of the issues with the Church at large can be traced to a general misknowledge of the Bible as it exists in its original forms. And as for Raz's comment- I have no idea what you're talking about, and frankly it really makes little difference when it comes to the Christian faith as a whole (although there are documented cases in which black folk are shown to be of Jewish blood). I'd like to know where exactly that is in the Bible. If you know yourself, anyways. Or at least where you heard that from, so I can find out from that source.
|
|